Anti bodies A in B Blood Group

[khalidm3]

Anti bodies A in some B subjects do not react with with A2 Cells??

Please Comment

[Yanxia]

I have not met such antibodies,. Anti-A1 only in B subject?

[khalidm3]

I have not met such antibodies,. Anti-A1 only in B subject?

Thanks

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Anti bodies A in some B subjects do not react with with A2 Cells??

Please Comment

Have you performed adsorption and elution studies to ensure that what you have is not an AB individual, with an extremely weak A antigen, but who has made an anti-A1?

:idea::idea:

[khalidm3]

Thanks, Not yet working tech shifted to an other bench. May be day after tomorrow we will continue.

[L106]

Maybe I'm on the wrong track here......but if a Group B person's Anti-A is very weak, isn't it more likely to agglutinate the A1 Reverse Cells but possible not agglutinate A2 Cells? (I'm talking about the immediate spin phase of the Reverse Grouping.)

Donna

Edited January 24, 2011 by L106

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Quite right Donna.

Fingers faster than brain.

I'll have another think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[khalidm3]

Maybe I'm on the wrong track here......but if a Group B person's Anti-A is very weak, isn't it more likely to agglutinate the A1 Reverse Cells but possible not agglutinate A2 Cells? (I'm talking about the immediate spin phase of the Reverse Grouping.)

Donna

Thanks

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Quite right Donna.

Fingers faster than brain.

I'll have another think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, I think that what I said was correct in the first place (although what I said is not necessarily the answer to this case).

If the person has a very weak A antigen (in this case a very weak A antigen with a normal B antigen), they are unlikely to produce an anti-A (otherwise they would be producing an antibody against self), but they would be capable of producing an anti-A1. Therefore, their plasma would react with A1 red cells, but not with A2 red cells..........or am I wrong?????????

:confuse::confuse:

[Yanxia]

No, I think that what I said was correct in the first place (although what I said is not necessarily the answer to this case).

If the person has a very weak A antigen (in this case a very weak A antigen with a normal B antigen), they are unlikely to produce an anti-A (otherwise they would be producing an antibody against self), but they would be capable of producing an anti-A1. Therefore, their plasma would react with A1 red cells, but not with A2 red cells..........or am I wrong?????????

:confuse::confuse:

Malcolm, I have do a test , it is an Ax, with anti-A in reverse type, the anti-A react with A1 cells of course, and when I add the plasma to 8 drop to 1 drop of 5%A2 cells suspension then the reaction is positive. My teacher tells me he find this tube of A2 cells is weaker than other A2 cells in the normal work, so the reaction will be stronger if the A2 cells is normal.

And khalidm3, I have misunderstanding your post at first, I think it is a sentence from some textbook, you think it is not right, so post it at here let us to discuss.

If this is a result of test, I think it maybe a AsubgroupB. Or B type with weak anti-A, but in this case, I think the anti-A1 result will not so strong as other B type, maybe weaker than 2+, so it will not react with A2 cells in immediate spin, because it is anti-A, just weak so react with A2 cells is weak to not visible, if you add the plasma it will react. But if the reaction with A1 cells is too strong, I mean 3+ or stonger, I think it prefer to be AsubB.

[galvania]

Hi KhalimI really think the most likely answer is that this person has a fairly weak anti-A. My guess is that the reaction with A1 cells is not the full 4+ agglutination pattern?? I would say this is fairly common, especially in older people. I would repeat the full reverse group at 4°C - MOST of the time, these weak antibodies then react

[khalidm3]

Thanks all of u, the reaction with A1 cells is 3+ by Gel and Non A1 Cells negative till AHG. We will do absorption/elution as Malcolm suggested in his first post. I did not incubate at 4, as I had no more serum while patient was from OPD. I have cells so I shall attempt Malcolm opinion.

[khalidm3]

Malcolm, I have do a test , it is an Ax, with anti-A in reverse type, the anti-A react with A1 cells of course, and when I add the plasma to 8 drop to 1 drop of 5%A2 cells suspension then the reaction is positive. My teacher tells me he find this tube of A2 cells is weaker than other A2 cells in the normal work, so the reaction will be stronger if the A2 cells is normal.

And khalidm3, I have misunderstanding your post at first, I think it is a sentence from some textbook, you think it is not right, so post it at here let us to discuss.

If this is a result of test, I think it maybe a AsubgroupB. Or B type with weak anti-A, but in this case, I think the anti-A1 result will not so strong as other B type, maybe weaker than 2+, so it will not react with A2 cells in immediate spin, because it is anti-A, just weak so react with A2 cells is weak to not visible, if you add the plasma it will react. But if the reaction with A1 cells is too strong, I mean 3+ or stonger, I think it prefer to be AsubB.

It is not sub group of B, may be a sub group of A, so the patient may be AB, due to subgroup of A??

[Yanxia]

It is not sub group of B, may be a sub group of A, so the patient may be AB, due to subgroup of A??

Oh, AsubgroupB in my meaning is A antigen is subgroup and B antigen is normal, am I spell it wrong?

[khalidm3]

Oh, AsubgroupB in my meaning is A antigen is subgroup and B antigen is normal, am I spell it wrong?

Thanks

[Yanxia]

khalidm3, my English is not good,so sometimes my expression is not clear, I am very sorry for the trouble I take to all of you!

I expect your test result.

[khalidm3]

khalidm3, my English is not good,so sometimes my expression is not clear, I am very sorry for the trouble I take to all of you!

I expect your test result.

Thanks, nice to read from China, ur English is good and understandable. All of us benefit from ur knowledge and experience.

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

I agree that it could be weak anti-A in an ordinary group B, but there are a couple of things that I would warn about in trying to prove this one way or the other.

Firstly, I understand from you khalidm3, that you have run out of the original plasma, and so cannot, at present, test the plasma at 4oC. When, and if, you do get another sample to test the plasma with A2 cells at 4oC (which, I agree, you should do, if you can), remember to put up group O red cells with the plasma at the same time, in case the patient has an auto-anti-I that would cause the A2 cells to agglutinate.

Secondly, if you do perform adsorption and elution studies with monoclonal anti-A on the red cells, remember to put up some group B cells with the eluate as well as A1 and A2 cells, because it may be that the anti-A is actually anti-A(, and you need to know that what are eluting actually is anti-A.

Sorry, I'm probably "teaching my grandmother to suck eggs"!!!!!!!!

[khalidm3]

Thanks Malcolm, Kind of u, excellent advices from u for all of us who are working in less facilitated and less educated environment. For any confusion my medical director asks me to post in BloodBankTalk and he is reading the forum with quite good interest.

I am thinking to use plasma from a B blood donor.

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

That is an excellent idea.

[Yanxia]

Thanks Malcolm, Kind of u, excellent advices from u for all of us who are working in less facilitated and less educated environment. For any confusion my medical director asks me to post in BloodBankTalk and he is reading the forum with quite good interest.

I am thinking to use plasma from a B blood donor.

Malcolm is right. As the same reason we will run O cells in paralel with A cells in case the unexpected antibodies disturb the result.

Edited January 25, 2011 by shily
spelling error