RR1 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 We are all trying to be so careful with donor blood that handling practices with autogous blood collected in post-surgical drains ( such as Bellovac) is overlooked. This is one significant area that should be thouroughly investigated.These drains collect patient blood from post-surgical sites (so could potentially be high risk areas for microbes) upto 6 hrs and are then re-infused for upto a further 4hr period. How can this be right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiescast Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) The 30 minute rule has been in use, as our "ancients" have pointed out, for a very long time. If, however, you have done a study that shows that under your specific use conditions blood exceeds allowable temperatures in less time than that, you must deal with that in your policies. We have not tested most of our room temperatures, preferring to go with the established protocol. Our ambient temperature in most areas of the hospital is around 70 F and we specify that temperature in our return policy ("must be no more than 30 minutes at room temperature (around 70 F)"). We also take a temperature if a unit comes back and feels warmer than it should.You never know if they set it on top of a heat producing device like a CPU or printer or heat vent.We did test our Trauma Bay because they keep the temperature at 90 F to keep the patient warm. It takes less than 7 minutes for the unit to exceed 6 C at that ambient temperature. We no longer accept units from our Trauma Bay for re-issue. If they take it, they've bought it (in American lingo!).We recently had a Joint Commission surveyer who insisted that the limit was 20 minutes and wanted to cite us until we produced AABB documents that show the 30 minute time frame (Technical Manual and Primer for Blood Administration - Standards does not give a time frame).Rashi is exactly right about the collection and reinfusion devices. This issue has bothered me for a long time. Some of them allow the same collection chamber to be reused after blood has collected for 6 hours and been infused. The devices that I have looked at have a holdup volume. This means that they may have some blood in them that is considerably older than 6 hours. This needs to be re-evaluated by the Standard setting organizations. Edited July 1, 2009 by adiescast Added comment about reinfusion devices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyd Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 We are all trying to be so careful with donor blood that handling practices with autogous blood collected in post-surgical drains ( such as Bellovac) is overlooked. This is one significant area that should be thouroughly investigated.These drains collect patient blood from post-surgical sites (so could potentially be high risk areas for microbes) upto 6 hrs and are then re-infused for upto a further 4hr period. How can this be right?I agree it's not right Rashmi, and SHOT/anecdotal reports show that these generous limits are still being abused at ward level. When the manufacturers are challenged on this, they all refer back to the original AABB guidance - it definitely needs looking at again, as suggested by 'adiescast'It's interesting that a number of hospital studies I have seen show that using post-op drainage devices makes an insignificant difference to banked blood use ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMcCord Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 We give them 15 minutes and take the temp when the unit is returned. We found that anything over 15 minutes guaranteed a temp > 10C and even less time in some areas. The nursing staff has gotten very careful about checking out products only when they are absolutely ready to hang the unit. They are also very diligent, for the most part, about getting products back to us quickly (exceptions: surgery and ER, what a surprise!). We have very few wasted units with returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carol1 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 When you take the temperature of returned units, do use a regular (mercury) thermometeror an infra-red thermometer?Thanks,Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMcCord Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 We use an electronic/digital thermometer with a nice thin probe. We have used an infrared, but if the temp is within 1 degree of 10C a recheck with the digital is required (accuracy) by SOP. So most of the techs prefer to just use the digital to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary** Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 :bow:The total volume collected in these "drainage devices" is seldom worth the risk of bacterial contamination. We stopped using them years ago. In their present design, they are dangerous.Signed,One of the "Ancients"PS You will miss us when we are gone and you have become the "Ancient One"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMcCord Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Ditto at my place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR1 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 To all the "Ancient Ones" communicating on this site....PLEASE don't leave us totally when you retire, we all still need you for advice and guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Needs ☆ Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 To all the "Ancient Ones" communicating on this site....PLEASE don't leave us totally when you retire, we all still need you for advice and guidance.Don't worry Rashmi, you're stuck with me being around for a few years yet!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR1 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 [QUOTE=Malcolm Needs;16646]Don't worry Rashmi, you're stuck with me being around for a few years yet!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D[/quote] Really???...but I thought you had to retire by the time you were 80 in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Needs ☆ Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Cheek!Coming from someone who admits to having five hundred 21st birthdays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L106 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 What's the typical salary range for the "advice & guidance" once we "ancient ones" retire???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Needs ☆ Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 What's the typical salary range for the "advice & guidance" once we "ancient ones" retire????NOT NEARLY ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!:cries::cries::cries: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR1 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 What's the typical salary range for the "advice & guidance" once we "ancient ones" retire????You'll be giving advice purely for the satisfaction of knowing that the lab staff in the hospital you may have an op/ blood transfusion , know what they are doing, because they are all learning from the "ancient ones" on BBT. Anyway....keeps the grey matter from deteriorating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Needs ☆ Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ah, then, you mean we'll be paid as badly as we are paid now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L106 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Yup! I think that's what it means!Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR1 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ah, then, you mean we'll be paid as badly as we are paid now!No, worse, $/£ = 0. You know you would be bored without BBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now