Nomenclature.

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

I am probably going to be quite controversial or pedantic (or any other adjective you would care to use about me - and many do!) but, as this site (BloodBankTalk as a whole, but the Education forum in particular), should we not be using the correct nomenclature for techniques, antigens, antibodies, etc, rather than the incorrect nomenclature that is continually being used, despite guideance from, for example, the ISBT and such luminaries as Peter Issitt (sometimes by real experts in the field)?

I refer, for example, to the use of the "Coombs test" (either direct or indirect), instead of the antiglobulin test (a term much preferred by Professor Robin Coombs himself), the use of "Kell", not for the Blood Group System, but for the K antigen, the use of the term "Rhesus" or "rhesus" Blood Group System, instead of the correct Rh Blood Group System.

If we continue to use incorrect terminology, we will perpetrate incorrect terminology, although at least aprt of this website is to educate? Unless we educate those coming up behind us, as it were, things will never improve, and the use of incorrect terminology can, in itself, lead to misunderstanding of either a question, or an answer (or both).

[adiescast]

While the ideal would be to use "correct" terminology, I think you will find the terminology is in flux throughout the industry. Because this is a networking site and not an educational site, I would suggest that insisting on "correct" terminology could limit the flow of information. We also have many countries represented and not all of them use the exact same terminology.

You can always provide the example as you go and hope that others will follow your lead. As an example, I use full words and punctuation in instant messaging. Some would call that old fashioned. I think it is clearer communication. You could do the same here. It is much gentler and less pedantic.

[Eagle Eye]

I agree with both posters. What we can do is, instead of pointing out we can just simply try using correct terminology. Few of us can start and I am sure it will improve. Eg. when we post a reply try using correct terminology eventhough other poster may have used incorrect terminology.

[Bill]

Which is correct terminology--"hematology" or "haematology"? Let's not be too critical of people, isn't this blog designed to be informal informational instead of critical?

[RR1]

It's a nice sunny day in the UK today.....and I agree with you all !! The difference between languages is not the issue so Haematology/ Hematology; Analyser/ Analyzer doesn't matter.

Sometimes when I read posts on this site or even on documents written by my own staff, I have to double check because the correct wording is not used, and it can be a bit confusing . I even get into the bad habit of doing this too- as Malcolm knows!

Our regulatory inspectors also need a bit of education - as they have been asking if techniques are detecting 'duffies' ! They need to ask if there is a problem with detecting anti-Fya antibodies......it is clearer to understand.

We all need to learn and improve continually ...and the sofly, softly approach is probably the best way forward with these issues.

Bill is right about this forum being informational and not critical.

Edited May 1, 2009 by RR1
forgot

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

I agree with the people who have replied.

Using the correct terminology in the replies is the best option.

The reason I suggested the educational side of the forum was simply because some people may not actually realize that they are using incorrect terminology; I wasn't trying to be hypercritical - HONEST.

[pluto]

I am probably guilty myself

one of the problems is how you communicate these verbally

I have never heard anyone say anti-big K its always anti-Kell

If I said anti-K1 there would be puzzlement

can't remember what we used to call anti-M is it anti-M for Martha and anti-N for Nancy

AB = apples and Bananas

O= Oranges etc etc

and other more funny ones used only internally in the lab

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Over this side of the pond, we tend to use Monkey for M and Nuts for N.

We also tend to use Apple for A and Orange for O, but quite often use Bertie for B.

Strangely enough, in my lab we do use anti-big K for anti-K and anti-little k for anti-k (but woe betide antone who says anti-Kell or anti-Cellano!).

[galvania]

In theory, I think Malcolm is right. But I do think also that the context is important. If you are presenting a talk at a symposium, or carrying out an official training, or writing a paper, then yes - no discussion. And when it REALLY prevents confusion, then yes again. But in informal settings, I doubt whether the old nomenclature will ever die out because it's just simply easier to SAY anti-D than to say anti-RH1. I would think that this forum is more INformal than formal, and everyone uses it to spin ideas off one another. I think that some people might find it quite intimidating if they thought they were going to be sanctioned for using terminology that is not the ISBT recommended one, or spelling mistakes, even!!

[pluto]

I wonder if Mrs. Kellachers family today know of her interesting transfusion background?

Her name will be always in transfusion books and labs across the planet

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Okay, okay, I put my hands up! I am a pedant!

Yes, this is an informal setting and so let people use the terminology they want!

The only thing I would say is, pluto, do you call anti-Kpb, anti-Kpb or anti-Rautenberg?!

[pluto]

I would say anti-Kpb

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Only jesting!

[pluto]

Only jesting!

thats ok , you are correct of course

I was laughing at work earlier having read Issitts 4th Ed which llustrated the point you made regarding anti-K ( see I am getting better) with a comment regarding "anti-Kell" where the reply to someone using anti-Kell in the lab was that I did not know there was an antibody against the whole whole Kell blood group system .

I think I will use anti-big K next time we pick one up and see if anyone asks me what I am doing

only quick reply last time as other half and kids came home and they would not be happy that dad having been at work 9 hrs on a bank holiday saturday was still on a work related website

Must go now as youngest coming out of bath and oldest watching and jumping about watching " Primeval " - dinosaurs etc for non-uk residents also dad wants to watch "Britains got Talent"

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Thanks pluto!

Tee hee, but there is such an antibody; it's anti-Ku (anti-K5)!.....or anti-Pelts of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 2, 2009 by Malcolm Needs

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Anti-Peltz, I mean.

Fingers quicker than brain syndrome.

[pluto]

Thanks pluto!

Tee hee, but there is such an antibody; it's anti-Ku (anti-K5)!.....or anti-Pelts of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks easy to remember as well as u in anti-Ku I read means universal

[LaraT23]

Well I think it is a good idea to try, however my lab staff''s heads would simultaneously explode if I even mentioned something like Oh, RH12... I mean they aren't too sure what a "G" is much less the ISBT term for it. I am trying to do a little continuing ed every week and introduce new terms but when the average age of a tech here in my lab is over 50, you just have to take baby steps! :Yes, I do say Kell ab for anti-K, to avoid the aforementioned biological accidents, but I know that I can freak them out at any time and mention KEL1. Ah, the little pleasures in life eh?

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

I think the point is that the ISBT Group about red cell antigen nomenclature specifically state that it should be, for example, anti-K, rather than anti-K1, and anti-G, rather than anti-Rh12.....but they also say that it is not anti-Kell or anti-Rhesus12.

[galvania]

You know, I could never really see the point on insisting that we use RH instead of Rhesus when we are speaking. The word 'Rhesus' flows off the tongue so much more easily than 'R H' - and is some languages more so than others. And I really don't think that ANYONE is going to think for a minute that we're talking about monkeys, so I can't see where any confusion could be made. Or has the Rhesus monkeys' Union filed for discrimination here, or taken out a patent on the name????? Being serious again, though - try doing an internet search for RH (on its own). Better still, don't, unless you have a couple of days spare with nothing else to do.............

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Well, although I suspect that you are very well aware of this Anna, it all comes down to the fact that Landsteiner and Wiener were working on an antibody made in guinea pigs that had been injected with the blood from the Macaca mulatta (or Rhesus) monkey. The antibody made reacted very much like anti-D, but it soon became apparent that it was not identical to anti-D, and that almost all D Negative individuals are reactive, albeit extremely weakly with this antibody (except newborns, who are D Negative, but react more strongly with the antibody. As a result, in 1963, this antibody was renamed anti-LW (after the work done by Landsteiner and Wiener) and LW became the 16th independent Blood Group System.

True anti-D was first described by Levine and Stetson and, because the powers that be did not want confusion between the two (LW and D), it was deemed that the proper name for the Blood Group System should be Rh, rather than Rhesus or rhesus.

I agree, it does take more effort to say Rh, rather than Rhesus (as it does to say, for example, Fya, rather than Duffy a, but I think it is worth it.

See! I said I was a pedant!

[irshadaad]

i think the symbols for blood groups as assighned originaly should be followed strictly.otherwise it confuses the outsiders.like for a while i observed some of my co workers kell=negative or pos what ever while as we are testing K ,so i informed our CMLSO about it and she instructed the blood bank staff to write K=neg orK=pos,otherwise kell is the whole kell system not K antigen alone.........rest of the spelling variation are understood wether hema or heama...hope you all agree

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Thanks irshadaad.

The point about Kell being the System and K being the antigen is exactly the kind of thing I meant.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Malcolm Needs
SPELLING AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

[tbostock]

Just try to get the "old timers" in the Blood Bank to say Weak D instead of Du...go ahead, I dare you.

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Just try to get the "old timers" in the Blood Bank to say Weak D instead of Du...go ahead, I dare you.

They do in my lab!

Actually they are pretty good at this, all joking apart.