Temp monitor systems

[Mabel Adams]

Also, does anyone have experience with Rees, Next Controls (Tutela), Temp Trak or Freshloc as a vendor for a centralized temp monitoring system--especially including throughout the hospital and at remote sites?

[adiescast]

Talk with Suzanne Butch in Michigan. I believe they were installing the Cooper Atkins Temp Trak product.

I looked at Rees. Their system looks very good, but they were not able to compete price-wise when we were looking. They let us have a demo system for about a month in blood bank and it was very easy to operate. Maybe they will be more competetive now that the market has soured. They are worth looking at.

I don't know anything about the other two systems.

[Alternatives]

Hi Mabel,

You could also contact me if you want to have more information about our centralized monitoring system. You would be able to compare. Send me a private message throught BBT.

Benoît

[M_Allan]

Dear Alternative,

It is nice to see you try to promote your system, but there are certain things, I would like to know.

What kind of wireless sensors are you using ?

Random send or duplex ?

I do not see a possibility to let the system call a phone and generate a voice message ?

There are many lab. experts on this site, that now little about all the systems that are on the market,

so give it a go.....and let us know !

Marc

[M_Allan]

For Mabel Adams and adiescast, I can say the following.

Rees is that expensive, because he has a nice portion in large Pharmaceutical companies.

These companies pay "big bucks", so you can understand, that it is impossible for them

to work with different prices for the blood-banks.

Sooner or later people would find out.

True, certain systems could be a lot cheaper if you look at the material used.

Selling sensors that cost the vendor ± $150.- for ± $650 is not an exception.

True, the Rees Human Interface is very good. Any person can operate it within no-time, and

the option to operate the software from a touch-screen is working very well, especially in

blood-banks.

Another company called Amega Scientific, has a similar interface, and is a lot cheaper.

Also their hardware is more up-to-date, where Rees is still using their old-fashion hardware.

Still working fairly well, but almost obsolete. They should really do something about that,

if they do not want to loose their portion of the market.

Yes, both systems have their shortcomings that certainly should be improved, but they function.

It is all up to the user, and how much they want to spend.

As other members were refering to in this Topic. Let them install a demo unit, and let your IT and QA test the system, and

then decide.

Once bought, you are stuck with the equipment for many years.

Edited December 19, 2009 by M_Allan

[Alternatives]

Marc, I prefer to share information on your private message box in BBT, as I don't want to advertise directly in the forum; sharing my experience and knowledge in cold chain and promoting specific solutions are diferent approach i don't want to mix!

Benoît

[Mabel Adams]

Can anyone share a validation protocol for a temperature monitoring/alarm system? I know to test the alarms and whether they talk to the system, but what else might I forget?

I posted this on another temp monitoring thread then realized it is in the UK section and folks there might need to meet different regulations than the FDA, JC etc. I should pay more attention to my search threads for issues that might matter, I guess. Sorry for the redundancy.

[M_Allan]

Dear Mabel

A Validation Protocol is system specific. Depending on the systems features, certain

tests are performed, to test the correct functionality.

For the end-user, it is important to perform a PQ ( Performance Qualification ), this, to test

if the system is working according manufactor specifications and regulations in their

specific environment.

If the monitoring system has been validated by the manufactor before, you can use their

Validation scripts, to perform the Validation, and perform extra tests to see if the system

is really running accordingly.

What kind of system are you refering to, maybe I can be of help

Marc.

[Eoin]

Using REES Centron - Send a sms text for more info.

Cheers

Eoin

[M_Allan]

Dear Eoin,

I think it is up to Mabel, to tell us what kind of system she is using, and not

necessary to mention the "R" system, unless you have a PQ written for this

particular system, and it is not your intention to promote it.

Everybody that has a "R" system, has a validation protocol for that system

designed by the Manufacturer, and does not need a Validation protocol, since they can

reproduce the tests from that document.

Marc

[Eoin]

Marc,

I am neither promoting or otherwise the R system if you like. Mabel's question was to contact anyone using such a system. We have it here, but I am not so naive to discuss pros and cons on an open forum. The offer for her to contact me if she wishes, still stands. Also this is not a forum for manufacturers, it is for med scientists / techs to discuss matters.

Cheers,

Eoin

[M_Allan]

Eoin,

I did not see, anywhere in this topic, that Mabel is using a "R" system.

That is why I did not understand why you came up with it.

You write:

"Also this is not a forum for manufacturers, it is for med scientists / techs to discuss matters"

Correct, but there are still several manufacturers that try to promote their system, and their Validation

protocols.

There was another discussion on manufactorers Validations in a topic, and what they are worth to us.

That is why I mention the PQ protocol, designed by independent soft & hardware people, including

tests to reveal the errors in the system, and what impact these have on bloodbank regulations.

You probably understand my remark now.

Regards, Marc

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Also this is not a forum for manufacturers, it is for med scientists / techs to discuss matters.

Cheers,

Eoin

Actually Eoin, I don't entirely agree with this comment either, but for a different reason.

There have been occasions when I, and others, have replied to threads/posts from donors or patients (lay people, if you will) who have asked questions because they are worried about something - like the lady who was rpegnany and worried about her anti-Cw, and the other lady who had a father who was HBC+, and who was worried as to whether she may also be HBC+ through birth, but wanted very much to donate blood.

I think that, not only are these reasonble questions, but that it is our duty (and pleasure) to answer such questions and, I hope, reassure such people.

:redface::confused::redface:

[M_Allan]

Eoin and Malcolm,

Sometimes, misunderstandings happen. Especially when writing

on a forum, especially, because English is second to me.

Maybe, it is also, the way I look at the monitoring market today, that

makes me a bit aggressive towards monitoring manufacturers.

Few started, making a fortune on the new market years ago.

Because they had a monopoly, they could get away with almost

anything.

The way they prepare there paperwork, they walk away without being

blamed, and with enough money where plenty of customers have been bribed,

and told it was going to be fixed in the next update.

For most monitoring system manufacturers, the money is in the pharmaceutical

sector.

To deal with regulations, also blood-banks have to play the game, and usually

end up having to buy a similar system, like the pharm. industry does.

Usually overkill, money-wise, and most of the time, not according the

regulations they have to deal with, but the manufacturer says..it is all fine.

Unfortunately, I have to say, that most garbage systems come from the U.S.

Everybody is trying to make a lot of bucks.

Just like Microsoft.

Invest 1 million in the product, and 10 into getting people crazy enough to buy it.

As I call it " the on the fly dilemma "

In regards to Environmental Monitoring Systems, we really have to ask ourselves

if, what we buy, is worth buying.

As a complete "odor and colorless" person, I have been testing about 10 different

systems.

Which way you go, it is always a compromise. Only few are honest.

It is like most companies in this world, the moment they grow big, they get corrupt.

For a lot of companies, a large portion of their budget goes into re-validating their monitoring system.

I noticed, that the smaller ones have the drive to do everything according the book.

They try to sell there product without the errors their opponents have.

Many things about monitoring systems are doubtful.

Specifications on Sensors. Do you have them on paper ?

Validation on software upgrades. Have you seen them ??

CFR 21 Part 11 Compliant, the sales person says. This is not possible !!!! See FDA.

How does Hard and software validation work ? Few end-users know.

and many....many...more.

O, yes, it is easy to say if something goes wrong. Just see who we can blame.

I think it is more important, that everybody takes the responsibility for his own actions, which rarely happens.

There are only a few companies, that were able to blame an Env. Mon. System Manufacturer, and make them pay for their errors. Very few !!

This is a big problem, end-users have to deal with.

I could fill a book with problems regarding, because I am a #1 in dealing with these issues, and trying to solve problems.

Interesting ??? Yes !!

Marc

[RochelleHase]

Mabel,

We just installed Temp Trax here at my current Blood Bank. I think I have mixed feelings so far. I will let you know in a couple weeks what the general thought is.

Rochelle

[Mabel Adams]

Hi, Rochelle. Welcome to the forum!

I just found out that Temp Trak has an alert function that allows a pop-up to appear on any workstation on the network that you define. Are you using this? It sounds like a pretty good way to bring an alert to the attention of people using computers but not necessarily checking emails. What release did you install? I understand 4.4 is the latest.

I expect we will see more of you on BBtalk now that you have found it.

[Mabel Adams]

Next question: When regulators stipulate "continuous monitoring" what does that mean for a digital rather than analog (chart recorder) system? Is every 15 min adequate?

I assume these systems monitor more frequently for out of temp conditions but only record temp data every 15 min.

[patpilkington]

We just went with Amega and are very pleased.