**revised** trm.50000 cap

[RWOOD57]

I was wondering if everyone agrees with this revision. Seems like a major change from traditional educational requirements. But it could be just my opinion.

Thanks

[PAWHITTECAR]

I have to admit to not knowing what it said before but the education requirements are consistent with what I have seen posted for the position in smaller facilities. I would think that a larger facility would have stricter guidelines for the position.

[RWOOD57]

From the lack of replies, I must draw the conclusion that not many posters are CAP.

[swede]

We are CAP, but I am at home and do not have access to the checklist right now.....so don't know what the standard is you are looking at.

[Eagle Eye]

**REVISED** 07/11/2011

[TABLE=class: MsoNormalTable]

[TR]

[TD]TRM.50000

[/TD]

[TD=width: 481, bgcolor: transparent]Personnel - Technical Operations

[/TD]

[TD=width: 95, bgcolor: transparent]Phase II

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=width: 88, bgcolor: transparent][/TD]

[TD=width: 575, bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2]The person in charge of the technical operations of the transfusion medicine section of the laboratory has education equivalent to an MT(ASCP) and at least 4 years experience (one of which is in transfusion medicine) under a qualified laboratory director.

Evidence of Compliance:

✓ Records of qualifications including degree or transcript, certification/registration, current license (if required) and work history in related field

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Old :

Does the person in charge of the technical operations of the transfusion medicine section of the laboratory have education or experience equivalent to an MT(ASCP) and at least 4 years experience (one of which is in transfusion medicine) under a qualified laboratory director?

Edited January 29, 2013 by aakupaku
added old checklist Question

[ANORRIS]

**REVISED** 07/11/2011

[TABLE=class: MsoNormalTable]

[TR]

[TD]TRM.50000

[/TD]

[TD=bgcolor: transparent]Personnel - Technical Operations

[/TD]

[TD=width: 95, bgcolor: transparent]Phase II

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=width: 88, bgcolor: transparent][/TD]

[TD=width: 575, bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2]The person in charge of the technical operations of the transfusion medicine section of the laboratory has education equivalent to an MT(ASCP) and at least 4 years experience (one of which is in transfusion medicine) under a qualified laboratory director.

Evidence of Compliance:

✓ Records of qualifications including degree or transcript, certification/registration, current license (if required) and work history in related field

REVISED 07/31/2012

States "education equivalent to an associate's degree (or beyond) in a chemical, physical or biological science or medical technology and at least 4 years experience (one in transfusion medicine) under a qualified laboratory director.

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Old :

Does the person in charge of the technical operations of the transfusion medicine section of the laboratory have education or experience equivalent to an MT(ASCP) and at least 4 years experience (one of which is in transfusion medicine) under a qualified laboratory director?

REVISED 07/31/2012

States "education equivalent to an associate's degree (or beyond) in a chemical, physical or biological science or medical technology and at least 4 years experience (one in transfusion medicine) under a qualified laboratory director.

[swede]

Thank you, Aakupaku and Anorris......we did have a discussion on this one at our facility. We were very disappointed in the rewording of this standard. Our lab only hires MT(ASCP) techs and we have always cited this standard to human resources. HR does not understand the profession of laboratory science and seems to think they know best when it comes to hiring practices; this standard has always helped us keep up the high standards that our laboratory has worked hard to maintain.

[OxyApos]

I inspected a small hospital that had an MLT running the Blood Bank with an MT close by. They had 6 pages of violations mostly because the well intended MLT didn't have the expertise to know what she didn't know and didn't know who to ask. The lone MT of this lab was overwhelmed with the entire running of the lab and didn't realize there were holes in their operation. But she technically ( ha ha ) met the CAP requirements.

[RWOOD57]

I do not understand why they change this standard without any explanation. Many of us continued our education to reach this equivalent to MT(ASCP) or BS degree in order to qualify for this position. It is like a slap in the face with an exclamation point!

[Dr. Pepper]

We also used to hire all MTs, but, due to a lack thereof, had to hire 2 MLTs over the last 2 years. They turned out to be excellent techs. I'm not sure that some extra geography, anthropology, and (admittedly) science courses are really going to make a difference 10 years (or 4, in this case) down the road in all cases. A firm educational background, and a longer one, is an advantage, but the vast part of our bench smarts and labcraft is learned at the bench, as students and workers. MT or MLT, there are bad ones and good ones, ones who just punch in and out ("it's just a job") and others who are curious by nature, fascinated by science and have a love for learning (like our BBT family of course). The latter are the ones who make the best techs and supervisors. I think there's a danger of MTs adopting an elitist and condescending attitude towards MLTs, which can be deadly to a lab. The "well intended" MLT who bombed the inspection could have been a MT and fared the same under those circumstances. There's no great secret to passing inspections; everyone has the same checklists and standards resources.

I think the CAP is just recognizing the changing lab scene, that MTs are in scarce supply and MLTs are attractive to the hospitals because they can pay them less. I applaud the MLTs (and anyone) who continues their formal education. But I think a good, experienced MLT can make a fine supervisor.

We had a MT, thick as a brick, who plodded her way to her Masters in MT. She once told me, "you know that because you're an SBB." I thought, "No, I'm an SBB because I know that." Letters after your name don't mean nearly as much as the effort you put in to doing your job and learning as much as you can about it.

[RWOOD57]

Great Post Dr. Pepper, Not only is the CAP recognizing the changing lab scene, they are also helping to create the change. I started as an MLT and some of the best tech's I have worked with were MLT's. So by lowering the educational requirements in the medical field we can get techs, nurses, and physicians and pay them less than today's salary base without any performance change......

[swede]

We also have MLTs in our lab, but all are ASCP, we do not have "education equivalent to" and that is where we were getting upset that CAP was dropping certification and making it seem like any 2 year degree in a science was acceptable. We have wonderful MLTs and they do the same job as our MTs.

[LCoronado]

Well said Dr. Pepper!

[PAWHITTECAR]

Letters after your name don't mean nearly as much as the effort you put in to doing your job and learning as much as you can about it.

I love it... I used the same with a resident who wanted to do something stupid and I wouldn't budge. He said I'm an MD so I told him I have way more letters than that after my name...He wasn't amused but after a call to his attending figured out I had just saved his behind.

[tbostock]

In many years I have worked with MTs that couldn't think their way out of a paper bag, and MLTs that could run the lab if you would let them. Many things come into play: engagement, love of learning, independent thinking, work ethic, etc. So the following statement is NOT meant in a negative way to MLTs.

However, it is a bit disheartening that other medical professions are raising the bar. Nursing, pharmacy, physician assistant, etc have elevated their profession by requiring more years of school or a higher degree. The Clinical Lab profession seems to be going the way of expecting less education. We're still called "techs" in most places, which equates us to an ER tech or OR tech that requires no formal degree. Most of the general public think that we all just draw blood. It's no wonder that our pay is not commensurate with the level of value that we provide to patient care.

[swede]

Well said, that is exactly what I wanted to say and you said it so much better, thank you!

In many years I have worked with MTs that couldn't think their way out of a paper bag, and MLTs that could run the lab if you would let them. Many things come into play: engagement, love of learning, independent thinking, work ethic, etc. So the following statement is NOT meant in a negative way to MLTs.

However, it is a bit disheartening that other medical professions are raising the bar. Nursing, pharmacy, physician assistant, etc have elevated their profession by requiring more years of school or a higher degree. The Clinical Lab profession seems to be going the way of expecting less education. We're still called "techs" in most places, which equates us to an ER tech or OR tech that requires no formal degree. Most of the general public think that we all just draw blood. It's no wonder that our pay is not commensurate with the level of value that we provide to patient care.

[RWOOD57]

Your exactly right tbostock, ER nurses have asked me if I had to go to college to work in the lab. We get little respect from them, yet we are usually the first they call with any questions.

[Dr. Pepper]

Wonderful points, Terri. My wife is a staff cytotechnologist. She does not have nearly the same supervisory responsibilities or interaction on various levels in the hospital, yet makes several dollars more than me per hour (assuming I worked a 40 hour week!). When she trained cytology was a 2 year associates degree. Now it's a 4 year BS and there is a Master's program as well.

[L106]

Your original post on the first page was excellent, Dr. Pepper! And tbostock makes some good points in her post.

[tkakin]

I inspected a small hospital that had an MLT running the Blood Bank with an MT close by. They had 6 pages of violations mostly because the well intended MLT didn't have the expertise to know what she didn't know and didn't know who to ask. The lone MT of this lab was overwhelmed with the entire running of the lab and didn't realize there were holes in their operation. But she technically ( ha ha ) met the CAP requirements.

I am seeing a lot of bench techs given managerial responsibilities, no matter there qualifications if you give too much work you will have employees who cannot perform their best, fail, and burn out. So sad.