Automation type in Europe?

[Liz]

What type of Automation is used in Europe?

Ortho sends Autovue out and keeps Provue in the US.

Anyone have experience with DIAMED automation? I use the manual Diamed so it would be practical to just move to automated in the same direction, but I would like to know how users feel about it...

Thanks

Liz

[galvania]

Hi Liz

Sorry I've not been on the forum for a while and I've just seen your post. DiaMed has a number of different instrument on the market in Europe, including a brand new one. In many countries the DiaMed instruments are in an overwhelming majority. If you need any specific information, perhaps you could write me a PM?

Anna

[Liz]

Hi Anna,

What is the name of the new Diamed machine? Which one are you pleased with? I am concerened about the problems I will face with automation and would like to know about them ahead of time to be prepared.

Thank you for offering your help.

Liz

[galvania]

Dear Liz, where are you based? Not all the machines are available everywhere. The new machine is called the IH1000, and it is a full automat, but there are numerous other instruments - fll automats, semi-automats, readers. I don't want to say too much about them here for fear it might get blocked as being too much of an advert. But you can get more information on the Diamed website (www.diamed.com) or send me a PM

Anna

[Liz]

Thank you Anna, I will check the site.

Liz

[Colin Barber]

I have used the Immucor Galileo's since 2003 at Barts & The Royal London in the UK and they have proved to be on the whole good work horses. We have 2 at the London and 1 at Barts they are on a bi-directional interface with our LIMS, which allows us to issue most of red cell via computer crossmatch. The machines are run 24 hours a day and we trickle feed the samples onto the analysers, so G&S samples are run as soon as possible after receipt in the lab. This give confidence to clinicians that for most patient blood can be made available quickly if it is needed. The DiaMed analysers are good machines, but for our work load and desire to continually process (i.e. you don't have to wait for the run to finish to add samples) means the Galileo works better for us

[Liz]

I have used the Immucor Galileo's since 2003 at Barts & The Royal London in the UK and they have proved to be on the whole good work horses. We have 2 at the London and 1 at Barts they are on a bi-directional interface with our LIMS, which allows us to issue most of red cell via computer crossmatch. The machines are run 24 hours a day and we trickle feed the samples onto the analysers, so G&S samples are run as soon as possible after receipt in the lab. This give confidence to clinicians that for most patient blood can be made available quickly if it is needed. The DiaMed analysers are good machines, but for our work load and desire to continually process (i.e. you don't have to wait for the run to finish to add samples) means the Galileo works better for us

Hello Colin,

Thank you for your post.

I was told by our Diamed supplier that in addition to Stat samples, it is a random access. I have not yet acquired it, and I am now concerned.

Which model do you have?

Thank you,

Liz

[Liz]

Colin,

Is yours the Classic Plus ID-GelStation ?

Thanks

Liz

[Colin Barber]

Liz,

Sorry I may have misled you, we use DiaMed for manual backup to the full automation on the Immucor Galileo so we don't have Gel stations - the reason we did not choose Gel Stations were they did not offer random access and you have to wait for the group and the screen to be complete before you get any results and for our work load we would have need 5 machines across our 2 sites. At the London Hospital we are a major trauma centre so getting an automated group securely transferred to our LIMS even before the screen is done is important - we can move to group specific blood and the correct group of FFP quickly. As we get a lot of major trauma I not keen on manual urgent blood groups as the risk of human error under pressure situations is high.

My wife has used the Gel station in her hospital for a long time and although she is happy with the machines the lack of random access and waiting for all the work for a batch to be complete before any results are available are the things she would like to see improved. Which I am told is the case with the new DiaMed IH1000, which I saw at the BBTS conference last year and on the stand it looked like it may now be more of a competitor for the Galileo or the new Neo.

There is one thing with DiaMed which is an issue for those of us in the UK that do electronic issue (computer crossmatch) their machines don't do "double dip" for blood groups, so for new patients where we do 2 groups to confirm the group the BCSH guidelines say the 2 groups should be from 2 different cell suspensions ie the machine needs to make a separate suspension for each group not do 2 groups from a primary suspension. So to be compliant in the UK you would have to run the 2 groups in different batches so it samples the collection tube twice. This might not be an issue for in the US - do you do electronic issue ?

Anyway good luck with the procurement of your analysers.

Colin

[Liz]

Thank you, Colin for taking the time to explain.

This is very helpful. The supplier may have misguided me, he said that the Classic Plus ID-GelStation has random access and I can see the results real time,

No, I don't perform the electronic crossmatch/issue, so it would not be a problem for me.

Although I am not stationed in the US, we are CAP accredited and follow AABB standards, so we do perform the Blood Group for new patients on 2 different samples.

But I must see about the new DiaMed IH1000, again the supplier said the only difference is that the new model is for high volume.

Thank you so much for the information.

Liz

[Colin Barber]

Liz,

I have checked again with my wife and unless there is a software update only available in the US the Gel station don't support random access - the IH1000 is claimed to.

We would be interested to know if random access is available in the US - so let me know what they say when you check on this.

Best wishes,

Colin

[Colin Barber]

Liz,

Sorry I assumed you were based in the USA, I have checked with Helen, my wife, and unless there is software update not currently available in the UK Gel stations don't support random access, I did see this demonstrated on the IH1000 at the BBTS trade show last year. We would interested to hear if random access is genuinely available to you on a Gel station as there will a rush for UK users to get this version of the software.

Let me know how you get on.

Best wishes,

Colin

Edited September 3, 2010 by Colin Barber
To correct typo

[Liz]

I do know that Ortho has the gel for the US and Diamed for the rest of the world. So DiaMed does not sell in the US.

I will check about the software update and let you know. It is important.

Thank you.

Liz

[Cellano]

Hi Liz,

You might want to consider the Immucor Galileo Echo (depending on your work load). It can handle around 100 samples per working day and has proved reliable in the UK. It has a reasonably standard ASTM interface data format and works in full host query mode if required. If you need any more information just ask.

For a higher sample throughput Immucor now have the Galileo Neo which is the next generation machine up from the Galileo's Colin has. They offer more reliability and shorter screening times. Keep in mind though, you are restricted to capture technology for screens with all Immucor products, and liquid phase plate technology for groups.

Phil

Edited September 3, 2010 by Cellano

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Keep in mind though, you are restricted to capture technology for screens with all Immucor products, and liquid phase plate technology for groups.

Phil

[Liz]

Hi Liz,

Keep in mind though, you are restricted to capture technology for screens with all Immucor products, and liquid phase plate technology for groups.

Phil

Thank you Phil for your reply.

This is exactly what concerns me.

Liz

[Cellano]

Hi Liz,

Although I have worked for IBG Immucor in the UK, I am not here to promote any particular technology, however, I can say that there are many UK transfusion labs that have moved to Capture technology without any problems, and are happy with the results. Transition to a different technology should not be discounted on the basis of the perceived learning curve alone, it is not as daunting as it sometimes seems.

[Liz]

Hi Phil,

You read my thoughts. As we are used to the gel for manual testing I did think that having the same technology for automation would make life simpler in case of downtime.

Liz

[Cellano]

Hi Liz,

Your point is well made, but there is nothing wrong with continuing with Gel as your manual method even if the automation was capture. You would get the best of both (Igg and Igm) worlds ! My point really is not to restrict yourself on choice based on the technology alone.

Phil

[Liz]

Over a year has passed and there must be more news about updated Gel Station and experience with the Immucor Neo. So, I am back with the questions:

1. Immucor Neo or Diamed Gel Station, which one is better for a 400 bed tertary (see quaternary) care medical center?

2. What are the problems faced with the Neo and with the Gel Station?

3. Are there any comparative studies?

4. Is the Gel Station (now BioRad) FDA approved?

Thank you.

Merry Christmas!!

[Liz]

Just to say thank you for your input and to let you know: We ordered the GelStation, finally. But I must say the Neo was very tempting. My main concern was downtime. With the Gelstation I can use the gel manually. With the Neo they were giving me an Echo, so first I was very happy then I read on this forum many reports that it does not have a detector if the sample is not drawn for the Ab Sc.. that was a big scare.

[Liz]

Hey Malcolm you are near 4,000 posts!!!

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

Hey Malcolm you are near 4,000 posts!!!

Well, you know the old saying Liz - empty vessels make the most noise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Liz]

I shall refrain from commenting...

I miss your jokes!!!??!! Why are you doing this to me?? is your home pc email still down?

[Liz]

Where is Cliff? I am over 1,000 posts, maybe my aura should be upgraded to something..

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oh Malcolm I cannot find the AABB post, are you going??