blood sampling after donation

[Sherif Abd El Monem]

hello

my question is how can we get samples for testing after donation from the bag ?and if the bag has not a pouch can we get it directly from the bag needle  into vacuum tube or this considered an open system ?thanks

[Baby Banker]

Going into the bag with a needle would make it an open system.  Does the bag not have segments attached?

[Cliff]

What kind of testing?  You would not be able to do viral marker testing as the whole blood has been diluted with CPD, and CPD is likely not approved as an anticoagulant for the tests cleared by the FDA (assuming you are using FDA cleared tests - I see you are posting from Egypt).

[Sherif Abd El Monem]

as this pic. i mean taking samples from the bag after donation for serology ?someone ask this question " and why we considered it as open system blood bag needle get into vacuum tube and then open clip to get sample? "

[Sherif Abd El Monem]

whole blood with CPDA-1 is not suitable for viral marker testing ?

[Cliff]

On 10/13/2017 at 6:52 PM, sherif said:

whole blood with CPDA-1 is not suitable for viral marker testing ?

Again, it appears you are not in the US, so I am not familiar.  You'll need to check what the sample requirements are for your infectious disease testing.  That's a lot of anticoagulant diluting the specimen and it's not likely acceptable.

[Sherif Abd El Monem]

thanks and what about my first question as pic. is this an open system ? and why ? and what sample requirements(especially anticoagulants)  for viral testing by FDA ,AABB?

Edited October 15, 2017 by sherif

[John C. Staley]

It's been a number of years since I was involved in the collection side of blood banking but what your picture shows is exactly what we would do.  When the bag was full a hemostat would be placed on the collection line.  The needle would be withdrawn from the donor and placed immediately into a tube as you have indicated.  If I remember correctly we filled 2 tubes.  Before the needle was removed from the last tube it the line was sealed.  This was in the 1980s and 90s.  Things have probably changed since then but that is how we did it and so did everyone else that I knew about.   

[Cliff]

11 hours ago, sherif said:

thanks and what about my first question as pic. is this an open system ? and why ? and what sample requirements(especially anticoagulants)  for viral testing by FDA ,AABB?

These are regulated tests, AABB is not a regulator.  FDA mandates the testing in the US.  Here is the list of approved tests and their specimen requirements: https://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/bloodbloodproducts/approvedproducts/licensedproductsblas/blooddonorscreening/infectiousdisease/ucm080466.htm

As for the pic of the blood bag, that is an open system.  You have an open needle, and while I understand the philosophy that it will be placed under a vacuum, the bag itself is still open.  All collection bags have a mechanism to collect the specimens in a closed system, there is no need to ever enter a bag like you show.  If this is a one off thing that you need to do, you can steriley dock on a satellite bag and enter that bag.  I still advise against this for your infectious disease specimens as it's not allowed.

[Sherif Abd El Monem]

thanks and for me i want to know the effect of mixing donor blood with anticoagulant(ACD-CPD-CPDA-1) on viral marker testing results .

Edited October 16, 2017 by sherif

[John C. Staley]

On 10/15/2017 at 2:49 PM, Cliff said:

As for the pic of the blood bag, that is an open system.  You have an open needle, and while I understand the philosophy that it will be placed under a vacuum, the bag itself is still open. 

Cliff, I know I've been out of the donor side of the business a long time but, unless I'm mistaken, the moment you take the cover off the needle prior to inserting it into the donor it becomes an "open" system.  Granted, there is no other way to accomplish this and most blood bag contamination comes from the skin plug that is made on insertion, rare as that is.  When the needle is inserted into the tube the blood flows from the bag into the tube then the line is sealed.  The odds of contamination occurring in this process is actually much less than the act of drawing the blood from the donor.  

Having said all this I imagine that some one has, in fact, come up with a better method of obtaining blood for infectious disease testing of the donor.   Just trying to justify how we did it in the olden days.  

[Cliff]

On 10/16/2017 at 6:35 AM, sherif said:

thanks and for me i want to know the effect of mixing donor blood with anticoagulant(ACD-CPD-CPDA-1) on viral marker testing results .

I can imagine at least two negative effects, first you will dilute out the marker you are testing for, second, the anticoagulant will interfere with the test.  It's critical that you follow the manufacturer's specimen requirements.

7 hours ago, John C. Staley said:

Cliff, I know I've been out of the donor side of the business a long time but, unless I'm mistaken, the moment you take the cover off the needle prior to inserting it into the donor it becomes an "open" system.  Granted, there is no other way to accomplish this and most blood bag contamination comes from the skin plug that is made on insertion, rare as that is.  When the needle is inserted into the tube the blood flows from the bag into the tube then the line is sealed.  The odds of contamination occurring in this process is actually much less than the act of drawing the blood from the donor.  

Having said all this I imagine that some one has, in fact, come up with a better method of obtaining blood for infectious disease testing of the donor.   Just trying to justify how we did it in the olden days.  

I agree.  What I remember from older bags is a sampling port being attached to the line.  You'd collect your samples first, then clamp that off, then divert the blood to the collection bad.  I believe most modern bags have a diversion pouch where you collect the blood for the samples to that pouch (40 or 50 mls - not sure), then again, divert to the collection bag.

In both of those scenarios, the initial collection of the blood, including a skin plug if present, go to the diversion bag first.  This helps reduce the risk of contamination.

[John C. Staley]

Cliff, you have achieved the impossible, you jogged my memory!  I now seem to remember what you described was just being introduced when I got out of the donor side of the business.  I do not remember ever bringing them in though.   

[Sherif Abd El Monem]

In AABB technical manual : " for blood processing sample(s) by a method that prevents contamination of the contents of the bag. This can be done in several ways .................................

c.       If a straight-tubing assembly set is used, the following procedure should be followed. Place a hemostat on the tubing, allowing about four segments between the hemostat and the needle. Pull tight the loose overhand knot made in step 5a. Release the hemostat, and strip a segment of the tubing free of blood between the knot and the needle (about 1 inch in length). Reapply the hemostat, and cut the tubing in the stripped area between the knot and the hemostat. Fill the required tube(s) by releasing the hemostat, and then reclamp the tubing with the hemostat. Because this system is open, Biosafety Level 2 precautions should be followed."

what does this means?

 

[Sherif Abd El Monem]

as this pic :

[emadlabs]

On 10/5/2017 at 1:18 AM, sherif said:

hello

my question is how can we get samples for testing after donation from the bag ?and if the bag has not a pouch can we get it directly from the bag needle  into vacuum tube or this considered an open system ?thanks

We in Amman Jordan use Quadruple bags with a small bag that we can take samples of them without the mixing CPD blood