Thank-you Lisa for posting a question in my absence. Was away from the computer for 3 days and feel bad for failing to post a question!

Oooh! Oooh! Me, me me! *raises hand* I'm human, too!

So given that we're all humans here and not primates, even though both species exhibit ABO groups in their blood, that leads to the next question for this thread: After watching the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnqVbcEb8AU

Are we as humans, any more closely related to primates other than blood groups??

:D:D (Come on now, the answer isn't that hard!! LOL)

The thread seems to have stalled, so I'll attempt an answer.

Yes, we share over 99% of DNA (in my case, over 99.9999%, my wife says).

Now then, why do Cromer antibodies not only not cause HDN, but actually tend to disappear during pregnancy?

:confused::confused:

^^I'll try Malcolm's question: Because of the actions of Decay Accellerating Factor and complement where the DAF blocks a complement mediated attack on fetal red cells, causing Cromer antibodies to be able to be recovered from the placenta but not the RBC's, thus showing the decrease of the antibody in the blood? (see link below--I think I managed to summarize what I found there--lol!)

http://a1881.g.akamai.net/7/1881/26640/v0001/redcross.download.akamai.com/26640/pubs/immuno/21_2_05.pdf

Edited July 7, 201015 yr by LisaM

^^I'll try Malcolm's question: Because of the actions of Decay Accellerating Factor and complement where the DAF blocks a complement mediated attack on fetal red cells, causing Cromer antibodies to be able to be recovered from the placenta but not the RBC's, thus showing the decrease of the antibody in the blood? (see link below--I think I managed to summarize what I found there--lol!)

http://a1881.g.akamai.net/7/1881/26640/v0001/redcross.download.akamai.com/26640/pubs/immuno/21_2_05.pdf

Yes, well done LisaM. The fact that the Cromer antibodies are adsorbed onto the apical surface of the placenta is the really important thing.

I must say that the first time I came across this, it was all very worrying. We had a lady with a very strong antibody directed against a high incidence antigen that turned out to be anti-Tca, and she was pregnant. We wondered how the pregnancy would go, as there was no Tc(a-) blood frozen down in the UK, but it was even more worrying as the pregnancy went on as the antibody became weaker and weaker until it almost disappeared entirely - until we read around the subject a bit more. THe reference number 43 cited by Lubin is wortha read, but I think that I am correct that the authors followed this up with a full paper (although I can't put my hands on it right now, as I am at home recovering from a horrible night on-call).

Right then, over to you again LisaM - time for another question!

:D:D:D:D

^^Yay! I got it right!

Here's the next question: What stimuli could be responsible for a naturally-occurring Anti-M?

^^Yay! I got it right!

Here's the next question: What stimuli could be responsible for a naturally-occurring Anti-M?

They are thought mostly to be stimulated by bacterial infection.

They are more common in very young children, than in adults, which lends credence to this theory, as very young childrens' immune systems would not have been exposed to such bacteria before, and so their immune systems would take longer to mount a primary responce. They are also common in victims of burns, which also supports the theory, as such victims also have a compromised immune system.

Assuming this is correct, which is a bit of an assumption, here is the next question.

What do anti-Salis and anti-Inb have in common, and what is thought to be the reason that anti-Inb does not cause clinically significant haemolytic disease of the newborn?

:confused::confused:

They are thought mostly to be stimulated by bacterial infection.

They are more common in very young children, than in adults, which lends credence to this theory, as very young childrens' immune systems would not have been exposed to such bacteria before, and so their immune systems would take longer to mount a primary responce. They are also common in victims of burns, which also supports the theory, as such victims also have a compromised immune system.

Assuming this is correct, which is a bit of an assumption, here is the next question.

What do anti-Salis and anti-Inb have in common, and what is thought to be the reason that anti-Inb does not cause clinically significant haemolytic disease of the newborn?

:confused::confused:

ok, i'm away from my books but i'm thinking anti-Salis and anti Indian( are antibodies to the same antigen on the CD44 marker. CD44 is not strongly expressed in neonates and in pregnant women.

^^I'll venture a guess, too--I found in Peter Issit, chapter 29 that it looks like Salis was the original/historic name for Indian-b, and that the reason it doesn't cause HDN is the possibility that anti-Inb can be absorbed by placental tissue?

Yes, you are both correct in that Salis/anti-Salis was the original name for In(b)/anti-Inb, before it was realised that the In( antigen was antithetical to the In(a) antigen.

There is a thoery, as you say LisaM, that anti-Inb is adsorbed onto the maternal surface of the placenta, but it is equally true that the expression of the Indian Blood Group System is diminished in pregnant women and neonates, as you say BrianD. There is another theory that anti-Inb is adsorbed onto the CD44 antigens expressed on the foetal monocytes and macrophages, blocking Fc - gamma - R1 molecules.

Right, I'll leave it to you two to fight it out between you as to who is going to pose the next brain-teaser!

Well done, by the way!!

:D:D:D:D

Lisa? can you pose the question? i'm on my off-rotation and deeply into my anti-malarial prophylaxis (gin and tonic).

Lisa? can you pose the question? i'm on my off-rotation and deeply into my anti-malarial prophylaxis (gin and tonic).

Love it!

I think it was W. C. Fields who was quoted as saying something along the lines of,

!I carry a bottle of whiskey for medical reasons, in case I get bitten by a snake. I carry a snake so that I know I'll get bitten."

Not an exact quotation, I know, but it was something like that.

:):)

Love it!

I think it was W. C. Fields who was quoted as saying something along the lines of,

!I carry a bottle of whiskey for medical reasons, in case I get bitten by a snake. I carry a snake so that I know I'll get bitten."

Not an exact quotation, I know, but it was something like that.

:):)

yeah, something like that!

b.

I'll have to pass to the next person to post a question--I'm leaving for vacation soon and have no time right now to look up something good! Have a great week, all, and see you next weekend!

I'll have to pass to the next person to post a question--I'm leaving for vacation soon and have no time right now to look up something good! Have a great week, all, and see you next weekend!

Hey Lisa, if anyone deserves a good vacation, it is you.

If the worst comes to the worst, I'll chuck in another question myself.

I hope you have really, really great vacation.

:D:D:D:D

I'll have to pass to the next person to post a question--I'm leaving for vacation soon and have no time right now to look up something good! Have a great week, all, and see you next weekend!

ok, i'm no longer under anti-malarial therapy. now, incomprehensibility is due to PGTips overdose. but i have 2 questions:

1. which antigen possibly related to the CD44 marker can serve as a receptor for some strains of Haemophilus influenzae?
   
2. what is this thing called "vacation?"
   

b.

ok, i'm no longer under anti-malarial therapy. now, incomprehensibility is due to PGTips overdose. but i have 2 questions:

1. which antigen possibly related to the CD44 marker can serve as a receptor for some strains of Haemophilus influenzae?
   
2. what is this thing called "vacation?"
   

b.

Well, you got me Brian.

I've even Googled and got nowhere for number one (except for several papers that I did not understand at all).

As for the second question, Google just blew up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek::eek:

1. Anton (Wj)?

2. What I had 12 days of in the last 2 weeks (sorry to rub it in)

Oops - I exaggerated - it was 12 days in the last 3 weeks, not 2 (they do make me work from time to time).

1. Anton (Wj)?

2. What I had 12 days of in the last 2 weeks (sorry to rub it in)

yes!!

the answer to #1 is An/Wj (aka "anton"). http://www.bloodbanktalk.com/bgs/aginfo.cfm?sys=37&ag=309 is a bit of linky-lurv that has more info.

and for #2. :cries::cries:

take it away, Dr. Pepper!

b.

Edited July 20, 201014 yr by BrianD
to add some linky lurv

I'd like to say I knew that off the top of my head, but I found it in Immunobiology of Transfusion Medicine, 1994, edited by George Garratty.

OK, here's my question: What pioneering blood banker told the following little story (as near as I can remember it) at a lecture I attended?

" We were investigating the I system and looking at the distribution of the antigens in other tissues and fluids. I wanted to see if it was found in breast milk. As luck would have it, there was a home for unwed mothers next door to the lab, and obtained a sample of milk. When I got to work the next day, though, I couldn't find the milk in the fridge. I asked my coworkers if they had seen the sample. They all looked down, a bit squeemishly, at their coffe cups...."

I have absolutely NO idea about this one, but it saounds like the sort of story that would issue from the lips of the great John Judd (or, possibly, John Case)?

:confused::confused:

That story is too funny! The new tech in the department with me must think I am nutty as I am sitting here howling with laughter over this!

Malcolm, Judd and Case were excellent guesses, and I have had the pleasure of hearing Mr. Case speak, but that's incorrect.

My daughter, son-in-law, infant grandson and two dogs moved in with us a few months ago while relocating. Perhaps getting a UPS delivery of mother's milk on dry ice from North Carolina jogged the memory of this story. (Yes, my freezer was full of milk "samples" but we didn't use them in our coffee. I learn from the wisdom of my elders! Besides, we take it black.)

This was a somewhat unfair question, kind of like "What did Sandy talk about at lunch break today?" How would you know if you weren't there? So let's make it a multiple choice question. Pick the winner:

a. Alexander Wiener

b. Robert Race

c. Peter Issitt

d. W. Laurence Marsh

e. Ruth Sanger

f. Karl Landsteiner

g. Robert Orr

I'd love for it to be Karl Landsteiner - that would make you rather ancient I think!!

I'll have a total guess at Peter Issitt...?

Peter Issitt is an excellent speaker, and many of us cut our serological teeth on Applied Blood Group Serology, but that's not correct. And I just gave a hint for you puzzle fans.