Hey all, after some discussion with our Trans. Comm. Committee, I have been given the go=ahead to look at alternatives to our Echo. I was a long time Gel person so I don't mind doing this. I am wondering what options there are out there with the Ortho gel systems- the classic manual gel system won't work for us as it still requires quite a bit of hands-on time. The Provue is too big. I saw some promo materials on the new Ortho "workstation" but I am guessing that you still have to sit with it between incubation etc- its not fully automated right? Isn't there another gel based system out there that may be new or am I dreaming? This would be for a USA lab, not Europe which is always two steps ahead of us anyway. Thanks!  PS, I don't want to call Ortho directly as I want to avoid the sales folks for now.

The Ortho Vision is still being routed through FDA approval process.

 

http://www.orthoclinical.com/en-nz/ProductInformation/TransfusionMedicine/Immunohematology/Pages/Home.aspx

 

I've heard a lot of rumors that it's coming out SOON, but who really knows. I have no idea of a size comparison.

 

I am very satisfied with the ProVue and looking forward to upgrading to Vision when possible. I'm sure Dansket will chime in with positive ProVue experience as well.

Ortho work station is for semi automated Gel system.

I love me ProVue which is automated system for Ortho Gel.

I think Vision is coming soon to US. and looks promising. 

Above link is from New Zealand and uses ORTHO BioVue® cassettes and I am sure for US it will be different.

I do love my ProVues!

VISION was designed starting with a blank sheet. I was given a powerpoint presentation and was impressed with this new instrument that uses the same gel cards as ProVue. Within a 12-18 months after release, expect vialed antisera for antigen typing on VISION.

VISION retrieves the gel cards needed for testing from the cartons that are stored within the instrument. Reagent Red Blood Cells can be stored on-board for 5 days. These two features will decrease the learning curve for generalists accustomed to operating core lab instruments with on-board reagents. VISION can run selected panel cells!!

VISION(400 lbs)is slightly larger and twice as heavy as ProVue (200 lbs.).

Vision ProVue

Width: 42.3 in. 40.0 in.

Depth: 30.31 in. 24.0 in.

Height:35 in. 25.59

Height with maintenance door open: 54 in. 36.5 in.

Just a note: Be sure to ask your ORTHO representative about an ORTHO product RESOLVIGEN that is currently available in Europe, but not in the US. This product should be integrated into VISION for as an aid to antibody identification, i.e. printing a report of antigen rule-outs based on reactivity of patient plasma with panel cells.

you can no longer get a provue as Grifols owns the patent and no longer allows Ortho to even service them (or so I am led to believe by my ortho rep). 

 

The new manual work station has some idiosyncrasies - no tube wells, you'll need to be creative to take the temperature. 

 

There are some other posts on the device somewhere on BBTalk.

 

Might consider waiting for Biorad to come out with their gel - their manual work station actually will read the cards and interfaces with your BBIS/LIS.  They say they are coming out soon - whatever that means.

 

Could also check out Grifols - I think their gel is approved but am uncertain.

 

Good luck

Yes, keep BioRad in mind.  I saw their new gel workstations at AABB last year, very impressive.

 

I have the Tango, which is solid phase, but is larger than the Provue.

Right, my understanding is that BioRad bought Diamed.  Diamed is used outside of NOrth America and is on its way here now that the patent restriction has been lifted.  I'm excited about the Biorad reagents - bigger vials, longer expiry (7 weeks vs 4 weeks) while still delivering every 4 weeks.  s

Thanks everyone. My "issue" with the Provue is that its meant for large labs and ours is very small. The last lab I worked in is a Provue lab but with about 10 times the volume we have where I am now. We are a good size for manual gel but we have  crosstrained 2nd and 3rd shift techs who have to walk all over the place between workstations. So I am hoping for something with the practicality of the Echo (no hovering over it while it goes through spins, 37 degree incubation, etc) -but not solid phase technology. Our reference lab uses gel so we don't agree on results when they repeat what we did for the initial screens and panels often.

Is the Ortho Vision meant for small labs? Sounds above like it isn't but I will check out the link. Thanks again!

I know a few "small" labs that use the Provue to help standardize their blood banking, esp on the off shifts.

You don't have to hover over the ProVue. As long as reagent volumes are good and the correct cards are loaded: you add specimens, program the tests, and come back for results ~39-42 minutes later.

 

I mentioned Dansket earlier because I thought his lab was more of a smallish size and that he had generalists on staff who were quite successful with using the ProVue. You might want to pick his brain.

 

I'm curious regarding the comments about no longer being able to purchase a ProVue. The vendors were here a few weeks ago in the hopes I would pursue a second ProVue for our next capital request.

Thanks again to everyone but we literally don't have the space for a Provue even if I could justify the instrument. I know quite a bit about it, used it actually, but its footprint is way too big for the lab. The search goes on I guess.

Goodchild

 

I was told this by my Ortho rep, my Biorad Rep, and 2 BBIS vendors that I was looking at.  Ortho is also not able to service Provues or the manual workstation.  The patent apparently belongs to Grifols and Ortho's rights have expired.

So if I decide to pursue the Ortho workstation for example, am I supposed to be contacting Customer Service at Ortho? Kind of confusing now it seems

I have the new ORTHO Workstation and from what I saw at AABB for the new Vision analyzer it is using the same new centrifuge (which only holds 10 cards) so I am guessing the patent does not involve any of the new equipment that ORTHO is coming out with. From what my rep told me before purchasing the new workstation is that there is no service on it.  If the workstation breaks you will need a replacement (which is what the service contract for it is for).  The only thing I believe that is replaceable on the workstation is the card holders in the centrifuge which can be replaced.

I was told this by my Ortho rep, my Biorad Rep, and 2 BBIS vendors that I was looking at.  Ortho is also not able to service Provues or the manual workstation.  The patent apparently belongs to Grifols and Ortho's rights have expired.

 

This is so strange.  Ortho is continuing to service our 2 ProVues and the field serveice rep was here 7 days ago for the PM on one of ours.

 

That being said we ARE looking forward to the Vision as a replacement>

Karrie61-in addition to gel- you may want to consider the other solidphase method (not sure why you mention you do not want solidphase). If it's due to the AUS problem with your ECho-the two solid phase automated methodologies ( capture R used on Echo/ Neo vs SSll on TANGO) are completely different in the detection of non specifics. Since TANGO uses intact red cells- not antigen coated ( stroma) micro wells- it does not have the false positive issue that CAPTURE R does. You may want to consider– although both the Vision and the TANGO are going to be bigger than your Echo. Anything smaller , will be a manual or semi automated platform nearterm.

Grifols was the OEM manufacturer for the ProVue and manufactured all of the ProVue instruments for Ortho.  Ortho is still allowed to service their ProVue instruments and Grifols has no say as to Ortho's policies regarding the servicing of Instruments sold under the Ortho name.  Ortho can continue servicing them until they exhaust their spare parts inventory or until they choose to stop servicing them. Grifols provided spare parts to Ortho until the ending of their contract.

 

The patent situation was that Ortho had license to the patent for gel testing and had blocked both Grifols and Bio-Rad from the US market.  When that patent expired in 2012 Ortho lost that protection and now both of these other companies are bringing gel products to the US market.

 

Grifols does have a full line of gel testing instruments which are currently available for sale in the US.

 

Also - Grifols did not make the manual workstation for Ortho. Grifols has their own workstation, which includes an optional automated card reader, and again, they are available in the US already.

Edited June 25, 201510 yr by JEMarti

Is Grifol workstation approved by FDA?

The patent situation was that Ortho had license to the patent for gel testing

 

This isn't true - Ortho uses bead technology as the patent is held by Diamed (now Biorad)

 

 

The patent situation was that Ortho had license to the patent for gel testing and had blocked both Grifols and Bio-Rad from the US market.  When that patent expired in 2012 Ortho lost that protection and now both of these other companies are bringing gel products to the US market.

 

Grifols does have a full line of gel testing instruments which are currently available for sale in the US.

 

 

This was my understanding as well.  According to our Biorad rep...

He said the gel cards are the same - manufactured in different locations (by different companies) but the same.

The cells, however... are different?  We are about to start validating Ortho cells (Screening and Panel) vs Biorad.  Time will tell......

s

Hope this helps to clarify the muddied waters! Ortho had exclusive distribution rights for the past few decades to the Diamed gel cards-Ortho never manufacturered them. They also did not manufacturer the Provue. They were a part of JNJ that has been divested as of last year to a private equity company.  Bio-rad purchased Diamed in 2007 (see link below), and now that the Ortho distribution agreement has expired, you are seeing new competition in the gel market. Diamed (now Bio-rad) ,the worldwide leader in gel technology, has gel cards and product in front of the FDA since Feb 2014. Has anyone seen a change in Orthos gel cards in the past year or so since the distributioin right expired?  

 

http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/Bio-Rad-Completes-the-Purchase-of-DiaMed-776352.htm

JustaKIDD, did you get my email after LV????????????

JustaKIDD, did you get my email after LV????????????

 

My apologies - wrong person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :blush: :blush:

In Europe Ortho uses glass bead technology.  In the US they use gel.

We were also a long time gel user that our lab director decided to go to the Echo.  Jan of this year we went to the Provue.  We kept using the gel for issues we had with the Echo, so we never really left.  The Provue is no longer available. It has been replaced with the Vision.  The work station is a manual system that combines your gel incubator and centrifuge.  By the way, now that we are using the Provue, our gel IgG card usage didn't increase that much.  Love the ABD cards.