Me again again

Malcolm, is that right that mum is C+c-? If so she either has to be homozygous C or have a deletion on the other side. If baby really is C-c+ then it has to be a deletion

I agree, and the exciting thing is that everything so far points to a --- haplotype of the amorph type, which is, of course, much rarer than a regulator type (and, of course, this would lead to Mum either expressing a full Rh type or be an Rhnull - so it cannot be a regulator type!).

I am spitting 6 inch nails in anger. It appears that my staff have given me some duff information.

It turns out that Dad is C-, c+, D-, E+, e+, which means he is an r"r, not an R2r or Ror". This does not alter the strange typing of the baby, vis-a-vis the fact that he/she types as an r"r", nor does it alter the Mum's strange group - BUT I AM NOT A HAPPY BUNNY!

:explosion:explosion:explosion:explosion:explosion

We have a mum (mom) who is R1R1. Her baby is R2R2.

1) Any ideas about this? I have a few.

:shakefist:shakefist:shakefist:shakefist:shakefist

I learn things more from the posts about this question, I have an guess, maybe it is because gene reconstruction or exchange or otherthings can change the gene.

I'm off on annual leave at the moment (I'm painting and decorating my son's bedroom) but a case has been brought to my attention by one of my staff members.

We have a mum (mom) who is R1R1. Her baby is R2R2.

1) Any ideas about this? I have a few.

2) Any ideas about how to get emulsion and gloss paint out of the hair of a 12-year-old son who should not have been in the area in the first place, and has just about avoided justifiable homicide???????????????????????

:shakefist:shakefist:shakefist:shakefist:shakefist

Hi Malcom!

I have been reading your posts for quite some time now and it's because of that I will choose to answer #2. There are a few recourses here. The first is simple and kind of fun, really. Just let him "wear it" for a few days : ) He'll eventually realize that he looks somewhat the buffoon and will sure never do it again. If this is an oil based paint, there's probably nothin' you can do but cut his hair. Let me know how it comes out, K?

Thanks for all that you've taught me!

Penny (thielp@health.missouri.edu)

Malcolm, what is Ceppellini effect?Thank you.

Malcolm, what is Ceppellini effect?Thank you.

Hi shily,

It is the effect that the RHC gene sometimes has on the the expression of the RHD gene, when the RHC gene is in the trans position to the RHD gene, rather than when the RHC gene is in the cis position to the RHD gene. In the original paper, individuals who inherited the dCe/DCe genotype gave a lower score in titration with anti-D than did individuals who inherited the DCE/dce genotype, even though the DCe haplotype was proved to be inherited from the same parent.

The original paper is Ceppellini R, Dunn LC, Turri M. An interaction between allels at the Rh locus in man which weakens the reactivity of the Rho factor (Du). Proc. nat. Acad. Sci. Wash. (1955); 41: 283-288.

If you can't get hold of that, then it is described in detail in Race RR, Sanger R. Blood Groups in Man. 6th edition. 1975. Blackwell Scientific Publications pages 233-234.

If you can't get hold of that either, then there is a bit about it in the PowerPoint lecture on the Rh Blood Group System in the Education bit of the Library on this site.

:hooray::hooray:

Hi Malcolm,

1. IVF, donor egg?

2. Advice on the paint. Use peanut butter (or peanut oil). Rub it in and it should help the paint slip off the hair shafts.

Hi Tim,

No, no IVF.

Thanks for the advice though.

Yee-ha!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just received the molecular results.

Dad is dcE/dce.

Mum is DwCe/---, with a Weak D Type 1.

Baby is dcE/---.

I'm really pleased with this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:blowkiss::blowkiss:

Wow!!!!! What on earth are the chances of those tow genotypes getting together? And I hope baby doesn't need a transfusion!!

Yes, a whole herd of zebra, all at one go!

Fortunately, we have about 21 units of r"r" frozen down in Liverpool should the baby require transfusion, so we are not panicking there.

Malcolm, those aren't zebras, they're unicorns!!

Ooo, how exciting!

Mum didn't make any antibodies did she?

Will the baby receive a card of any sort? Just thinking a few years down the line they will potentially just receive 'D-' or worse still if it's a boy may be even 'D+'...

Mum had anti-E - no evidence of anti-c.............yet, but that's about all she can make within the Rh Blood Group System.

Baby, on the other hand.....................

Malcolm, those aren't zebras, they're unicorns!!

Love it Anna!!!!!!

We received a cord blood recently where the mother's last name and the baby's last name were completely different. Our first thought was a mislabled specimen (since L&D is notorious for that); but turns out it was a surrogate mother!

Brenda Hutson

Very interesting, this case and the wonderful analysis and the complete result can be a very good teaching file.

You may remember that I originally speculated that the lady with the unusual Rh genotype above may have been a DCe/dCe, showing a weak D phenotype because of the RHC gene in the trans position (the Ceppellini effect).

By complete coincidence, we have just hade the genotype results back on another patient who was also an apparent R1R1, but with an incredibly weak anti-D that we could only detect with our "best" anti-D reagents.

This person turned out to be DCe/dCe with a Weak D Type 1 gene. We would have expected to detect the resultant Weak D Type 1 antigen quite easily with our routine anti-D reagents.

So, this is a genuine Ceppellini effect case.

It never rains but it pours, as the saying goes.

:eyepoppin:eyepoppin:eyepoppin:eyepoppin:eyepoppin

Ok, I'll bite...what is a Ceppellini effect?

Brenda Hutson

You may remember that I originally speculated that the lady with the unusual Rh genotype above may have been a DCe/dCe, showing a weak D phenotype because of the RHC gene in the trans position (the Ceppellini effect).

By complete coincidence, we have just hade the genotype results back on another patient who was also an apparent R1R1, but with an incredibly weak anti-D that we could only detect with our "best" anti-D reagents.

This person turned out to be DCe/dCe with a Weak D Type 1 gene. We would have expected to detect the resultant Weak D Type 1 antigen quite easily with our routine anti-D reagents.

So, this is a genuine Ceppellini effect case.

It never rains but it pours, as the saying goes.

:eyepoppin:eyepoppin:eyepoppin:eyepoppin:eyepoppin

Ok, I'll bite...what is a Ceppellini effect?

Um, sorry Brenda, but if you read post 31 (the first one of page 4 of this thread, I explained it there.

Oops.....sorry; I will look at that.

Brenda Hutson

Ok, I'll bite...what is a Ceppellini effect?

Um, sorry Brenda, but if you read post 31 (the first one of page 4 of this thread, I explained it there.