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Ortho C-D Gel card versus BioRad Gel Card


rscheuermann

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Do not quote me on this but if you go way, way back- I think I read that a Dr.Yves Lapierre (France) created the Gel (column) testing somewhere around 1988 via a company called Diamed.  Then, I believe Ortho Diagnostic acquired the right to sell this technology in the U.S in 1985. However Biorad acquired Diamed in 2007. Sooooooo  if this is correct the technology should be very familiar if not the same. ???

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1 hour ago, jojo808 said:

Do not quote me on this but if you go way, way back- I think I read that a Dr.Yves Lapierre (France) created the Gel (column) testing somewhere around 1988 via a company called Diamed.  Then, I believe Ortho Diagnostic acquired the right to sell this technology in the U.S in 1985. However Biorad acquired Diamed in 2007. Sooooooo  if this is correct the technology should be very familiar if not the same. ???

This is almost true, but the size of the cards are different from one another, so that the Ortho cards will not fit into DiaMed/Biorad equipment and vice versa, however, the main difference that most people notice is that the Ortho cassettes have glass beads in their columns, whereas DiaMed/Biorad has a gel in their columns.  This can make quite a difference when looking at weak reactions by eye, if you are used to using one or the other, and then suddenly have to switch.  It doesn't take that long to adapt, but for that short period, it can be awkward.

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So thinking out loud, I would think that with the naked eye reactivity would be easier to see with  'glass beads' due to better magnification? I'm guessing since I have not personally compared the two: even the few forum's that I've seen on this site are varied in opinion. Just curious Malcolm what have you worked with and if you have had experience with both do you (personally) prefer one over the other? 

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I have worked with both, but I have far more experience with the DiaMed/Biorad gel cassettes than I have with the Ortho glass bead cassette.

My own preference is for the DiaMed/Biorad technology, but that could just be because I am more used to it.  Someone who is more used to using the Ortho technology would think the other way around.  Certainly I did not find any advantage from "magnification" with the glass beads, and I actually found it easier to see weak reactions in the DiaMed/Biorad technology, than I did with the Ortho technology.  That having been said, I was beginning to be able to see the weak reactions better in the Ortho technology the more I used it, but I never quite got to the same level of "certainty" as I did with the DiaMed/Biorad technology.

I must stress though, that this is just my own point-of-view; others may feel exactly the opposite, and neither of us may, necessarily, be correct in all aspects!

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OK - to clear up some confusion  (apologies for it being so late in the day!).

Ortho in Europe has glass beads.  Ortho in the States has gel which is similar to but not identical to the Bio-rad (ex-DiaMed) gel.  As the original question was about Kidd antibodies, I will stick to that.  You all know that Kidd antibodies love playing hide and seek.  BOTH techniques will miss some Kidd antibodies - but not necessarily the same ones.  So you might see some antibodies coming up in Ortho and not in Bio-Rad; and you will see others that do the opposite.  And by the way, Immucor will pick up Kidd antibodies that no one else does but it's not sure that these are real but might be artefacts caused by Paraben.  It is fair to say that some antibodies just 'prefer' one system over another.  But across the board, it evens out.

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Thanks for your comments. I didn't want to bias any discussion. We are correlating the new BioRad IH500 using the new Diamed cards vs our current Ortho C-D Provue gel cards and there is poor concordance with Kidd antibodies, specifically anti-Jka. The Ortho gel are much more sensitive picking up weak to 2+ reactions while the IH500 gel is showing negative reactions. Anyone have any history or experience with Kidd antibodies on the BioRad Diamed cards specifically?

We are not seeing an evening out of antibody strengths between the 2 cards. Do you think it is a huge concern then that the Jka specimens are non-reacting with the Diamed cards given the rare instances of the antibody in patients. Also, naturally-occurring Kidd antibodies are very rare. Further, there are multiple blood bank cards/methods in the region ie. Ortho gel, Grifols, Immucor, and we can view any of a patient's Kidd antibody history to provide antigen-negative red cells. 

Thanks,

Robert

Edited by rscheuermann
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You make  it sound as though the bio-Rad system does not pick up Kidd antibodies.  I can assure you that just is not the case.  If it were, then there would be a huge number of transfusion reactions in hospitals using the bio-rad system - and that is not the case.

There may be all sorts of reasons as to why these particular antibodies are not showing up.  First of all, can I suggest you try repeating manually.  As this is a trial, there may be a problem in the way the instrument has been set up - although that is a long shot.  Then, what I strongly suggest is that you contact your local bio-rad rep and let them send the samples to Switzerland.  Switzerland will need to know exactly which lot of cells and cards you were using, they will want print outs of the results from the IH1500 - and as much information about the age of the sample, whether it was frozen etc as you can give them.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 6:41 AM, galvania said:

OK - to clear up some confusion  (apologies for it being so late in the day!).

Ortho in Europe has glass beads.  Ortho in the States has gel which is similar to but not identical to the Bio-rad (ex-DiaMed) gel

Whew, thanks for that, I thought I had lost my mind briefly (or my sight!)

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