Free Blood Banking Information System

[dsanel]

Hi all,

I know this may sound unreal or even funny to someone, but it is not. I am s software developer who has a lot of experience in development of blood banking information systems. I am willing to participate and assist in the development of it.

If anyone is interested in such things, I'm here. I would be happy, if nothing else, then talk about this subject.

Thanks in advance

Sanel Deljkic

[David Saikin]

It wouldn't be free to get the 501(k) from the FDA, which you would need before you could use it in a clinical situation.

[angonzalez]

It wouldn't be free to get the 501(k) from the FDA, which you would need before you could use it in a clinical situation.

Given the cost and quality of blood bank software that gets 510k certification, I would agree, somebody is getting paid.

Hi all,

I know this may sound unreal or even funny to someone, but it is not. I am s software developer who has a lot of experience in development of blood banking information systems. I am willing to participate and assist in the development of it.

If anyone is interested in such things, I'm here. I would be happy, if nothing else, then talk about this subject.

Thanks in advance

Sanel Deljkic

I think there was a short lived attempt at it. See http://bloodbank.sourceforge.net/. But it went nowhere.

Unless someone does the bulk of the work, and it would be a lot, I don't think you could get enough open source programmers to be interested in such a small niche project. And I don't think there is enough interest by blood banks to make it viable. It's a shame really because it would be in the long range interest of the blood banks would be more supportive of such an effort.

[dsanel]

It wouldn't be free to get the 501(k) from the FDA, which you would need before you could use it in a clinical situation.

I am not from America, so I don't understood all legal "staff" about this. Of course, it must be same kind of approval from government (or same 'big' organization) but it will be a lot of easier if we already have system (for free) and we only need resolve this "issues".

I think there was a short lived attempt at it. See http://bloodbank.sourceforge.net/. But it went nowhere.

Unless someone does the bulk of the work, and it would be a lot, I don't think you could get enough open source programmers to be interested in such a small niche project. And I don't think there is enough interest by blood banks to make it viable. It's a shame really because it would be in the long range interest of the blood banks would be more supportive of such an effort.

People start working on specific project without much knowledge about it. They do not understand what means project like this and how much work it is.

Of course, this can not be completed in several days or months, but we can start working on it. If we have one or two persons (working occasionally) it will go slower, but if we have several people who will work more on this, then we can do something concrete.

As I mentioned earlier, I already have experience with this. My plan would be to divide the system into several "big" modules. There are institutions that would benefit only from one module, and there are institutions that would benefit from more than modules. If we finish one module, somebody already can see it and test it, and maybe use it.

This is a suggestion list of modules:

• Blod Bank
  
• Donor and Donations
  
• Laboratory Management for Donors
  
• Laboratory Management for Patients
  
• Transfusion Management for Patients
  
• Connections with different type of analyzers
  
• Implementation of RFID and BARCODE
  
• Standards: HL7, ISBT128...
  
• Detailed reports
  
• ...
  

This is not a comprehensive list, but it is a good start. I would appreciate your opinion on this. Please write what is on you mind about this. Please write what you think about this.

Thx

[genus]

Good Day!,

Am planning to develop a blood banking system this year, thank you for these ideas,

Am on the process of designing, and waiting for the response of the concerned entity for business rules.

Regards,

Genus

[Bill]

Maybe a better project is to develop a database for patients with blood bank antibody or problems. This could be web based with an open source software.

[Cliff]

Maybe a better project is to develop a database for patients with blood bank antibody or problems. This could be web based with an open source software.

Bill, I love the idea and have toyed with developing it for this site.

The one huge sticking point I have is how to ensure I have the correct patient? I would never use a SSN on a public site, and I have not found them to be reliable anyhow.

Suggestions?

[Liz]

Good Luck.

Anyone willing to give the time and expertise required for such a delicate and complex project deserves a huge pay in return. It is hard to find such a talented person with the time.

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

On the other hand, it is fairly easy to find someone with time on their hands, but absolutely no talent; me, for a start, as far as computers are concerned (if you will allow me to qualify the last statement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

[Liz]

Are you searching for a compliment, Malcolm? You are a walking encyclopedia with no time to spare.

[Malcolm Needs ☆]

No Liz, I was just being disarmingly honest about my computer abilities (which are abysmal)!!!!!

[Bill]

Cliff, I know what you mean. It would not be a difficult database to design--the biggest issue is patient ID amongst all the different providers without using SS#. Is there anyone on this site using the Kansas City antibody database that could jump in here?

[bduff]

How would you know that the data is really true? I have seen where a hospital had an antibody on a patient from many years ago. The patient then went to another hospital and received MANY transfusions without ever having a positive antibody screen and no transfusion reactions which would have been expected at some point. Therefore at the second hospital they do not honor the first hospital's antibody identification. Unfortunately there are many labs that have provided OB/GYN offices with incorrect blood types as well. I would be leery to just let anyone update this database. It sounds like a wonderful idea but I think we would end up having to give alot more antigen negative blood needlessly.

[Bill]

How do you know if ANY data (even in your own lab) are really true? At some point, one must just do business in good faith knowing that people make mistakes.

[Bill]

Good Day!,

Am planning to develop a blood banking system this year, thank you for these ideas,

Am on the process of designing, and waiting for the response of the concerned entity for business rules.

Regards,

Genus

The only suggestion that I would have concerning this project is to build the program in an open source software platform that is free. If you need idea of one, send me a private message, I do not want to advertise here. This way, even the smallest of blood bank will be able to use it when it is done.

[carolyn swickard]

But who is going to offer the 24/7 service center needed to keep the system running and answer questions and resolve problems????

[Cliff]

Cliff, I know what you mean. It would not be a difficult database to design--the biggest issue is patient ID amongst all the different providers without using SS#. Is there anyone on this site using the Kansas City antibody database that could jump in here?

I would never consider using the SSN, and then if we offer too many point to ID the patient, we will likely violate their HIPAA rights.

How would you know that the data is really true? I have seen where a hospital had an antibody on a patient from many years ago. The patient then went to another hospital and received MANY transfusions without ever having a positive antibody screen and no transfusion reactions which would have been expected at some point. Therefore at the second hospital they do not honor the first hospital's antibody identification. Unfortunately there are many labs that have provided OB/GYN offices with incorrect blood types as well. I would be leery to just let anyone update this database. It sounds like a wonderful idea but I think we would end up having to give alot more antigen negative blood needlessly.

You would never know, but another facility could use it to help. Maybe you honor the ab's, maybe you don't.

How do you know if ANY data (even in your own lab) are really true? At some point, one must just do business in good faith knowing that people make mistakes.

Agreed

But who is going to offer the 24/7 service center needed to keep the system running and answer questions and resolve problems????

Certainly not me. Who would offer a service 24/7 center when the data is being offered for fee?

I still really like the idea, but I have no idea how to get around HIPAA.

[Bill]

Cliff, by your response here, you are really into this. I like the idea also and think that HIPPA is not a major problem--just do what all the MD's etc that are using shared EMHR's for a consent (or just add this new enity(if it happens) to that consent).

[dsanel]

Hi all

I am very happy when I see how many people were involved in discussion. As I said, system like this can not be done overnight. And can not be done without problems. There will always be a lot of problems with institutions, governments, users, hardware, administrators, doctors... If we can make system that will, in the beginning, be good for just several small (and without money) institutions, then I think we have a success.

I fully understand pessimism regarding this but I hope that I will prove otherwise in a few months. I already start working on same ideas and I hope that, in the future, I will find somebody who is interesting to work on this project too.

If there is someone who is interested to help, you can contact me on PM.

Best regards

[Cliff]

Hi all

I am very happy when I see how many people were involved in discussion. As I said, system like this can not be done overnight. And can not be done without problems. There will always be a lot of problems with institutions, governments, users, hardware, administrators, doctors... If we can make system that will, in the beginning, be good for just several small (and without money) institutions, then I think we have a success.

I fully understand pessimism regarding this but I hope that I will prove otherwise in a few months. I already start working on same ideas and I hope that, in the future, I will find somebody who is interesting to work on this project too.

If there is someone who is interested to help, you can contact me on PM.

Best regards

Hi dsanel, I think we hijacked your original post and started talking about something altogether different. I've been talking about developing an antibody registry where anyone could log on and either register a new patient with new antibodies, or look one up. It sounds like you are talking about developing a full blood bank information system. My idea I am interested in developing, your idea is far beyond my capabilities, and a truly monstrous project. There are many regulatory hurdles to leap through for what you are proposing and I wish you luck.

[carolyn swickard]

But who is going to offer the 24/7 service center needed to keep the system running and answer questions and resolve problems????

This comment was directed to the original proposal of this thread - all of the big Blood Bank systems offer a lot of training and service and updates, etc....... Certainly something that would also have to be considered by anyone developing a new system - even a small one, even a "free" one.

I would also be interested in a national database for Antibodies, even though, as many have pointed out, data could get fairly weird. Does anyone at the AABB think they could host and secure such a site???

[Sheryl Kochman]

Many people don't realize that software can be a Medical Device.

In this case, software used in relation to blood collection and transfusion is definitely a medical device, specifically Blood Establishment Computer Software (BECS) and anyone developing it is considered to be a medical device manufacturer who is required to comply with the requirements in Title 21 CFR 800. That means you must register with FDA, list your product with FDA, follow the Quality System Regulation (which includes providing customer support for the life of the device), file adverse event reports, and much more.

In the case of an "antibody registry" it is likely to include patient identifiers and other patient related info. So it is probably also a Medical Device, specifically a Medical Device Database System (MDDS).

Anyone considering development of such software needs to learn what is required by the US FDA before you get too far into the process. Check out the website at:

http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/DeviceRegulationandGuidance/default.htm

[richardc]

Hi,

I've just come across this thread and thought I'd add my 2c worth with a couple of points which may be of interest. Firstly, although this is a USA forum, the provision of a blood banking system goes far beyond the USA. The need is actually far greater outside the USA and an open source system would be really helpful for developing countries. The cost of entry into a commercial system means banks either go without a computer system or get a hand-me-down, outdated system. In the developing world, the FDA's requirements arre not so relevant, although 510k certification or CE marking (Europe) would obviously be a huge advantage. But many countries wouldn't require that, provided the system could be shown to work reliably.

In terms of 24/7 support, I'd have thought that would be a commercial spin-off if required. That would be similar to Canonical's model (Ubuntu) of providing the software free but charging for other services. People have a choice whether to provide support internally or go to the developers etc.

I agree with Bill that it should ideally be built using opensource software. That way others can join in the development over time.

Sanel, if you're still interested in this, drop me a note. It sounds like you've got the technical experience and I've got clinical experience, so we might be able to get this started!

Richard